I'm guessing that most people don't read the comments after the blogs I post. But the one by Mike, is something we should all consider. In essence he is asking whether or not there is a correlation between the 'fallen leader' and the community of faith they fall within. In other words, do those who follow, those who support and those who idol's the celebrity leader need to take some responsibility for the 'failure' of their leaders. I place quotation marks around 'fallen' and 'failure' because I wonder about how we are going to define this. It almost goes back to the old question of whether or not if a tree that fall makes a sound if no one hears it. The fact is for years, maybe decades, a persons ministry is applauded and supported until the 'chink' in the armour is discovered. So for 20 years the person is a saint, a hero and icon and then suddenly they are deceivers, hypocrites and liars. Hmmmmm, could it be that some of the responsibility lies elsewhere? Could it be that when we develop systems which support celebrity outside of accountability, we are simply getting what we ask for?
We say that when 'one part of the body hurts we all hurt' but what we really say is because one part of the body hurts I am hurt', therefore we can judge and 'rebuke' the one who hurt us, without any attention being directed to our idolatry or our participation in the fallens, failure.
Another thing we should consider is, What about 'church discipline'? Could it be that the reason it is so dysfunctional and ineffective, is because there is nothing of this nature expressed in the scripture. Where does the Bible express and explain the exact procedures for 'church discipline'. Where does the Bible use the term 'church discipline'? Please don't quote Matthew 18 because that is all about forgiveness and restoration's. Please don't quote Galatians 6, because that is all about 'restoring such a one with gentleness'. Please don't quote Paul to Timothy who didn't in any way shape or form explain what the exact repercussions of 'rebuke and elder publicly' meant. We are the ones who have imparted meaning and definition to these text. No one on the planet can argue that they are explicit and defined for us.
We are left with general principles, biblical stories and common sense to develop philosophies for discipline and procedures. And in many cases, most cases? It appears none of the afore mentioned are utilized to bring about the healing and restoration of the fallen. The fact is, it appears to be the exception not the rule, when gentleness, compassion and any sense of fairness if applied when dealing with the fallen.
Mike raises a valid question and I have yet to hear or read about anyone who has addressed it. I guess it is so much easier to point the finger and wag the tongue, than it is to actually deal with these things in a just, fair and biblical manner.
As Bill O says, 'Am I wrong?' Inform me. Give me clear and tangible examples of when, where and how things are different. Something that is more than an accepting. In my opinion it is to far and in between. What's amazing is we have had 2000 years to figure it out and we are still muddling around.
Monday, November 13, 2006
Friday, November 03, 2006
I'll eat my blog!
Note: I don't feel any different about this today than I did when I wrote this opinion. There is alot of posturing and proming going on related to this situation. I don't know where people come up with the 'formulas' for their processes or the time tables they throw out there, but they do it none the less. My feelings about this no doubt are influenced by my experience, but not only as it relates to me, but to so many people I have watch over the years. It is all just so sad and in my opinion shameful. I have recieved some stinging comments already and I have now respoinded, but I would love to hear from anyone who can shed light on the situation. I do know that restoration happens but it is rare and it isn't simply the result of a person failing to go through a process. If you care at all about the state of the church, how we do business, please read this, please think about this, it will happen again, will we ever get it right?
By now millions of people have been made aware of the failings of a Nationally known Christian leader, Ted Haggard. Some will wag their finger and click their tongue. Others will blindly and foolishly stand by their man, no matter what the facts are. Still others will broad brush all Christians as liars and hypocrites. But very few will step back examine themselves and then reach out to a brother who has fallen short of the the standards he himself has set, let alone what we would consider Gods standard.
Those who wag the finger, will single out the nature of the sin and condemn him. Somehow coming to the conclusion that our brothers sin is somewhat blacker and darker than any sin we might commit. How does one distinguish between a sexual sin and the sin of gossip? Is gossip somehow less harmful? Ever read the book of James? How about greed, selfish ambition? Has anyone ever been 'disciplined' for those sins? So what am I saying, that sexual sins are excusable and to be over looked? Not at all, but what I would say is, if we are going to 'discipline' then we should do so without partiality as it relates to the sin or the sinner.
Is there a pastor on the planet who has been disciplined for slander or gossip? Yet gossip is justified, overlooked and accepted as necessary, 'we need to know these things'. I cannot tell you the number of times I have heard this justified in Board meetings or Leadership gatherings.
I once heard a definition of gossip as this, 'it is telling the truth about another person that no one needs to know
."
The problem I have with 'church discipline' is it is so terribly flawed and inconsistent. Please someone somewhere give me a list of 'fallen leaders' who have not simply been disciplined, but restored! The vast majority are simply kicked to the curb, abandoned never to be heard from again. Or as the headline of today's paper read, "Pastor dismissed!" And dismissed he will be, left for the most part to face not only the damage of his own sin, but to bare the sins of those who have embraced him in his success, but don't know how in the world to approach him in his failure. I'm sure that those who are responsible for his 'discipline' will indicate that they are committed to him and will support him, but I have my doubts.
Okay and what about the disciplining of the disipliners! Will we be allowed to examine the examiners? Can we get a peak at their Internet history? Can we review their hotel bills? Their checkbooks? Can we speak with their neighbors, spouses or other family members? Will they reassure us that they have no 'secret sin', that is NO SIN that we are not aware of. Or are we to simply trust them to do what is in the best interest of the man, his family and the church. Please don't do that. Do not trust or take the word of those in charge of the process without them having to prove they are trust worthy. They shouldn't disclose the details of the process, but they should be wide open to how the operation is going and the qualifications of those performing surgery. Have they done this surgery before? How many people have they brought though a restoration process? Where are they? How are they doing?
I can here people now trying to dismiss me or invalidate what I am saying here, 'Oh he is just bitter.' I'm sorry but first of all that isn't the case. Secondly that isn't the issue. The issues are completely related to what is happening to this man Ted Haggard and his family. What is going to be done for him and them. Yes him, he can't be discarded because sin has been discovered. There is NOTHING in the BIBLE that encourages anything other than for him to be given help, 'restored with gentleness'. Send this out far and wide and show me in the Bible where he even has to be dismissed. What it says is he is to be 'rebuked' and publicly, 'so that all may fear'. Really so everyone will know that we don't play favorites. But we do, we have favorite sins that we discipline over and others we simply overlook. Can you imagine if a pastor rebuked before his congregation for sinful behavior, repented and moved forward in that church. Gosh I wonder if his preaching might become a touch less condescending? I wonder if the messages would be stripped of their shaming tactics and guilt inducing exhortations? I wonder if a message of compassion, grace and mercy might appear in place of these? Okay, I'm just fantasizing!
I also wonder about the people 'close' to Ted, how could they not see signs that he was not doing well or that he had 'developed splits'? Maybe they weren't that close at all. Maybe there had been a separation allowed to develop between him and those who worked 'for him', rather than with him. Gosh I wonder if the 'wonder boy' had been idolized by those around him, to the degree that they were blinded to his fallen nature.
I have serious doubts about a process which begins with someone being 'dismissed'. I don't think we will ever see or here from Ted again at the same level he is operating today. Therefore where is the restoration? Oh do you mean he can go to church? How nice.
Yes this ticks me off, without excusing any of his behavior. But his behavior doesn't for one minute justify the behavior of others. He may have 'disqualified himself' from 'elder ship' at least for a season, but he has done nothing worthy of what he is about to face from his brothers and sisters. Maybe those outside the Christian community have a right to respond to a person who has declared publicly his problems with them. But I don't think the church has much of right to do anything but to figure out 'what help is' and then give it in abundance, without judgment, lest they themselves be tempted. Tempted to do what? Sin against this brother.
I will tell you this here and now, if Ted Haggard of how the church finally does the right thing and ministers to a hurting and broken man and family, bring healing and restoration to them. I will eat my blog!
By now millions of people have been made aware of the failings of a Nationally known Christian leader, Ted Haggard. Some will wag their finger and click their tongue. Others will blindly and foolishly stand by their man, no matter what the facts are. Still others will broad brush all Christians as liars and hypocrites. But very few will step back examine themselves and then reach out to a brother who has fallen short of the the standards he himself has set, let alone what we would consider Gods standard.
Those who wag the finger, will single out the nature of the sin and condemn him. Somehow coming to the conclusion that our brothers sin is somewhat blacker and darker than any sin we might commit. How does one distinguish between a sexual sin and the sin of gossip? Is gossip somehow less harmful? Ever read the book of James? How about greed, selfish ambition? Has anyone ever been 'disciplined' for those sins? So what am I saying, that sexual sins are excusable and to be over looked? Not at all, but what I would say is, if we are going to 'discipline' then we should do so without partiality as it relates to the sin or the sinner.
Is there a pastor on the planet who has been disciplined for slander or gossip? Yet gossip is justified, overlooked and accepted as necessary, 'we need to know these things'. I cannot tell you the number of times I have heard this justified in Board meetings or Leadership gatherings.
I once heard a definition of gossip as this, 'it is telling the truth about another person that no one needs to know
."
The problem I have with 'church discipline' is it is so terribly flawed and inconsistent. Please someone somewhere give me a list of 'fallen leaders' who have not simply been disciplined, but restored! The vast majority are simply kicked to the curb, abandoned never to be heard from again. Or as the headline of today's paper read, "Pastor dismissed!" And dismissed he will be, left for the most part to face not only the damage of his own sin, but to bare the sins of those who have embraced him in his success, but don't know how in the world to approach him in his failure. I'm sure that those who are responsible for his 'discipline' will indicate that they are committed to him and will support him, but I have my doubts.
Okay and what about the disciplining of the disipliners! Will we be allowed to examine the examiners? Can we get a peak at their Internet history? Can we review their hotel bills? Their checkbooks? Can we speak with their neighbors, spouses or other family members? Will they reassure us that they have no 'secret sin', that is NO SIN that we are not aware of. Or are we to simply trust them to do what is in the best interest of the man, his family and the church. Please don't do that. Do not trust or take the word of those in charge of the process without them having to prove they are trust worthy. They shouldn't disclose the details of the process, but they should be wide open to how the operation is going and the qualifications of those performing surgery. Have they done this surgery before? How many people have they brought though a restoration process? Where are they? How are they doing?
I can here people now trying to dismiss me or invalidate what I am saying here, 'Oh he is just bitter.' I'm sorry but first of all that isn't the case. Secondly that isn't the issue. The issues are completely related to what is happening to this man Ted Haggard and his family. What is going to be done for him and them. Yes him, he can't be discarded because sin has been discovered. There is NOTHING in the BIBLE that encourages anything other than for him to be given help, 'restored with gentleness'. Send this out far and wide and show me in the Bible where he even has to be dismissed. What it says is he is to be 'rebuked' and publicly, 'so that all may fear'. Really so everyone will know that we don't play favorites. But we do, we have favorite sins that we discipline over and others we simply overlook. Can you imagine if a pastor rebuked before his congregation for sinful behavior, repented and moved forward in that church. Gosh I wonder if his preaching might become a touch less condescending? I wonder if the messages would be stripped of their shaming tactics and guilt inducing exhortations? I wonder if a message of compassion, grace and mercy might appear in place of these? Okay, I'm just fantasizing!
I also wonder about the people 'close' to Ted, how could they not see signs that he was not doing well or that he had 'developed splits'? Maybe they weren't that close at all. Maybe there had been a separation allowed to develop between him and those who worked 'for him', rather than with him. Gosh I wonder if the 'wonder boy' had been idolized by those around him, to the degree that they were blinded to his fallen nature.
I have serious doubts about a process which begins with someone being 'dismissed'. I don't think we will ever see or here from Ted again at the same level he is operating today. Therefore where is the restoration? Oh do you mean he can go to church? How nice.
Yes this ticks me off, without excusing any of his behavior. But his behavior doesn't for one minute justify the behavior of others. He may have 'disqualified himself' from 'elder ship' at least for a season, but he has done nothing worthy of what he is about to face from his brothers and sisters. Maybe those outside the Christian community have a right to respond to a person who has declared publicly his problems with them. But I don't think the church has much of right to do anything but to figure out 'what help is' and then give it in abundance, without judgment, lest they themselves be tempted. Tempted to do what? Sin against this brother.
I will tell you this here and now, if Ted Haggard of how the church finally does the right thing and ministers to a hurting and broken man and family, bring healing and restoration to them. I will eat my blog!
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